[DW] When the Dust Settles

[bryan]

i think derek is pretty grounded when it comes to reading these message boards. he knows there are his core fans, and as such he is interested in what they think. but at the same time i know for a fact that he doesn't want to become a people pleaser and is wary of putting too much importance on the feedback. it's a thin line that might be impossible to tread perfectly on...

but yeah, if you comment on his music on this board, i think there's a good chance he will stumble by it.

thanks travis, for putting up that quote. it confirms what i thought, that this was an extension of his other discs. but i do see the merit in looking at a disc on its own and seeing how it stands alone.

and kirk, i'll drink don miller's kool-aid 7 days a week and twice on tuesdays. not becuase it all goes down smoothly, but because it doesnt go down smoothly. I like that i am forced to think about my faith in ways i never have before. not to mention that i agree with alot of his opinions. but maybe thats another thread.

b

[Geof F. Morris]

trey ( not that I expect that to happen of course.. but you know.. it never hurts to pray for sanity..) 

Takes a crazy person to know a crazy person. 

GFM <-- insane.

[trey]

trey ( not that I expect that to happen of course.. but you know.. it never hurts to pray for sanity..)

Takes a crazy person to know a crazy person.

GFM <-- insane.

what.. you expect me to argue with that? 

trey ( still crazy after all these years)

[Kirk]

and kirk, i'll drink don miller's kool-aid 7 days a week and twice on tuesdays. not becuase it all goes down smoothly, but because it doesnt go down smoothly. I like that i am forced to think about my faith in ways i never have before. not to mention that i agree with alot of his opinions. but maybe thats another thread.

It makes me think about Miller's faith, but not about mine.  I reject his politics, and I reject his theology, not because they are his, but because they are wrong.  I've never read anything in Miller that I found even remotely profound, and where his criticisms of evangelicalism are accurate and fair (which isn't often), his solutions are either non-existant or wrong headed.  His bitterness towards the church of Jesus Christ is something that is to be spoken against, not celebrated.  Miller is fortunate not to be the recipient of a libel suit from Jerry Falwell for the outrageous way he misrepresented Falwell in SFGKW (and I'm no Jerry Falwell fan).  The pathetic wimp of a god he paints in that same book is certainly nothing to fawn over.  And his sophomoric blog entry writing style is tedious beyond what I can bear.  I don't get why thoughtful people are challenged by him.  i really don't.  He's just not that profound.

[Stephanie]

 

[bryan]

i'm not sure why you don't get it either. but i'm glad i do.

[ryan robinson]

  I reject his politics, and I reject his theology, not because they are his, but because they are wrong.  I've never read anything in Miller that I found even remotely profound, and where his criticisms of evangelicalism are accurate and fair (which isn't often), his solutions are either non-existant or wrong headed...

see kirk, this is the kind of stuff i was talking about before.  this kind of talk seems to be about the quickest way possible to shut down a conversation (and to stop people from wanting to listen to you or converse with you in the future, for that matter).  your speaking in absolutes makes you sound as though you think you are God Himself, handing down your omniscient declarations from on high.

I don't get why thoughtful people are challenged by him.  i really don't.  He's just not that profound.

and this (combined with the rest of your quote)...don't you see this as a bit rude when you're talking with someone who clearly does like him?  do you talk to people like this in person?

[$keith]

[Kirk]

and this (combined with the rest of your quote)...don't you see this as a bit rude when you're talking with someone who clearly does like him?  do you talk to people like this in person?

The implication there is that I believe Bryan to be a thoughtful guy (as is Derek).  This is why I have trouble seeing why Bryan is challenged by him.  It's because of my respect for Bryan that I'm confused by it. 

your speaking in absolutes makes you sound as though you think you are God Himself, handing down your omniscient declarations from on high.

I'm quite aware that people who have been so influenced by postmodernism despise absolutes. That's one reason Bush is so hated by people in our generation.  There's a false idea that equates humility with wishy-washiness.  Confidence and humility are not opposing values.  I'm quite confident about what I believe in regards to the gospel.  That's what faith means -- confidence and assurance.  It's not confidence in me...it's confidence in Him, and in His revelation through his word. 

And I'm pretty sure Derek's just as confident about his position as I am about mine.  Funny how the criticism is only directed in one direction, though.

[$keith]

I'm quite aware that people who have been so influenced by postmodernism despise absolutes.

As someone who plants one foot firmly on each side of this trench, I would have to say the issue has little to do with absolutes in and of themselves; rather it is in the attitude of those who put forth these absolutes, especially in issues that are not central to the gospel.  And I say this as someone once saw things as you do, Kirk (and still do in many respects).  There is simply more to this discussion than the black and white.  It involves the PR work of the church to the world around.

[Bethany]

I don't think this has been posted yet:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2006/derekwebb-0106.html

Christianity Today interview about Mockingbird

There has been some misunderstanding even among my closest community, folks whose opinions I care a lot about. They've been misunderstanding that with this record is like I'm coming down on everybody: "You have to live like this. You have to do these things." But that's not at all what I'm saying.

There's not enough that we can do. You can't give enough money. You can't love the poor enough. You can't give enough of your possessions away to earn the love of the Father. Only Christ keeping the law on your behalf can do that. But if God does in fact love us that much, we are compelled to value the things that he valued. And Christ really had a special place for the poor. Matthew 25 shows how to judge whether or not you have real faith—faith that can justify you before the Father. When we look at the hardest people in our culture to love, how do we love them? So although the record is about action—no doubt about that—it's action in the context of liberation in Jesus.

[Geof F. Morris]

Thanks for posting that, Bethany.

GFM

[Andrea]

I don't think this has been posted yet:

http://www.christianitytoday.com/music/interviews/2006/derekwebb-0106.html

Christianity Today interview about Mockingbird

There has been some misunderstanding even among my closest community, folks whose opinions I care a lot about. They've been misunderstanding that with this record is like I'm coming down on everybody: "You have to live like this. You have to do these things." But that's not at all what I'm saying.

There's not enough that we can do. You can't give enough money. You can't love the poor enough. You can't give enough of your possessions away to earn the love of the Father. Only Christ keeping the law on your behalf can do that. But if God does in fact love us that much, we are compelled to value the things that he valued. And Christ really had a special place for the poor. Matthew 25 shows how to judge whether or not you have real faith—faith that can justify you before the Father. When we look at the hardest people in our culture to love, how do we love them? So although the record is about action—no doubt about that—it's action in the context of liberation in Jesus.

That was great - thanks Bethany! I like a lot what he had to say in response to the questions...

[Rosshole]

And I'm pretty sure Derek's just as confident about his position as I am about mine.  Funny how the criticism is only directed in one direction, though.

Well, to be fair, you have directed PLENTY of criticism in that direction.  As have others.

[$keith]

Yeah, really good quote, Bethany.  I'm glad he said that; very good articulation on some songs off the album.







... I also want to add that I am still falling in love with this album.  It may have taken a bit, and some of that was just letting the meanings behind the songs work their way into me.  I don't know how many dozen times I've listened to it, and I like it more now than my first (or third!) time through, without a doubt.  This IS Derek's best album, and I am very confident he has more great stuff coming.